Leadership Lucky Draw: Kath O’Dwyer, St Helens

Kath O’Dwyer has spent the last 40 years making her mark in public service, most lately as the chief executive of St Helens Council. Picking questions at random, she talks life outside work, inspirational quotes, and why she’s a “local government girl” through and through.

Hi I’m Kath O’Dwyer, I’m the chief exec of St Helens Council. St Helens is a metropolitan borough between Liverpool and Manchester. We’re part of the Liverpool City Region and we’re a borough that’s got a rich industrial heritage.

I’ve been chief exec here nearly four years. It’s my second chief exec’s job, and it’s my home borough. So, what’s not to like? Why would you not want to make a big difference in the place that you’ve grown up and the place where some of my kids live and indeed my mother still lives.

So, lots of pressure to get it right.

I’ve got an envelope full of questions. so I’m going to try and pick a few of them at random and see what they’re asking and give you my response.

I’ve got to say, I think local government’s a great career. People don’t appreciate the diversity: over 600 different services, dozens of different professions.

My CV, what am I most proud of? And what do I regret?

To be honest, I’m proud of lots of things. My career started in social work. So I was a children’s social worker by trade. Loads of families that I’ve helped as a frontline social worker, the staff that I’ve developed as a manager, and the partnership and place shaping and organisational change that has been a big thing for me as a chief exec.

I’ve got to say, I think local government’s a great career. People don’t appreciate the diversity of local government, over 600 different services, dozens of different professions. That’s a big thing for me. I don’t think as a sector we shout loud enough about the career opportunities. And I’ve had a great career. It was my 40th anniversary in local government last year. Every tier that there is in the organisational structure I’ve been part of. I’m so proud of the difference I think that I’ve made, hopefully.

What do I most regret?

In that 40 years I’ve had a spell as a senior civil servant. And I suppose what I realised was the civil service was not for me. I am a local government girl. I also had a stint in the private sector. Not for me, private sector. But I’ve got to say I learned loads from both, and I think both of those experiences have helped me and shaped me into the chief exec I am now, really.

Any secret tips to getting stuff done?

I don’t think they’re big secret tips, but I think the two big things about getting stuff done are about communication and engagement. None of us can deliver anything by ourselves. So really helping folk to understand what you’re trying to achieve, the why, the how, and then engaging colleagues and partners in that design and delivery, to establish the change.

I can’t imagine not doing this, to be honest. I absolutely love it. Being a public servant, and particularly being a chief exec, is an absolute privilege.

If you weren’t doing what you’re doing now, what would you be doing?

I can’t imagine not doing this, to be honest. I absolutely love it. Being a public servant, and particularly being a chief exec, is an absolute privilege. You get to work with some amazing people, and you get to lead and shape and change stuff for the better. I’m not saying it’s not a tough gig, it absolutely is. But if I wasn’t doing this, I don’t know what I’d be doing. I can’t think of another career I’d want to do.

I suppose once I retire, there’s lots of places I want to see, lots of places I want to go to, and I suppose there’ll be another batch of grandchildren for me to look after. I’ve got six now, but I haven’t had a lot to do with their care. My husband has because he’s already retired, but it’ll be my turn next, I think.

Psychometric testing. Load of baloney, or super useful.

I’ve got to say I’m a big fan of psychometric testing, but it’s got to be one of a number of ingredients in a recruitment process or selection process. Particularly we did a lot of recruitment during lockdown, so you lose out on the physical being in the same room as somebody and the vibe you get often. We used a lot of psychometric during that period and have continued to do so, because it just gives that added ingredient, a bit of extra intel and understanding.

For me, the fit of the individual into either the team or the organisation is just as important as the technical skills and the knowledge and the experience. And I think psychometrics help you to judge that fit.

I’d spend the journey home either singing in the car like or on the phone, catching up with mates, and putting a bit of difference to the day, making the day a bit more sociable.

What gets you through a tough working day?

I suppose it’s a bit of grit and determination some days. And I’ve got to say, it’s the support of colleagues, the opportunity to talk some it through or reflect and consider, or even just have a bit of a sound off, really.

But even the toughest days have some positives in them. Rarely is a day totally awful, so whether it’s an opportunity to develop new knowledge or try a new approach or test out new skills or address a new problem… All challenging and can lead to a difficult day, but it just adds to the experience; something else to put in your basket.

When I used to have a commute in my previous job, I would spend the journey, the hour in the car in the morning plotting and scheming. You know, ‘Well if we did this and we did that…’ or on the phone to folk. And then I’d spend the journey home either singing in the car like a madwoman and looking quite bizarre when anybody drove past me, or on the phone, catching up with mates, and putting a bit of difference to the day, making the day a bit more sociable. And I tend to do stuff in the evening. I don’t always feel like it, but once you get yourself out it helps, doesn’t it? I’m not a big fan of the gym, or exercise, or any of that sort of stuff. I’m more of a social being, I think, to keep myself balanced.

If you had an inspirational quote on your wall, what would it be?

I did used to have one on my wall, and it was a one liner. It was, “Success is simple. Do what’s right, in the right way, at the right time.” It fits with local government, because what we do is about making a difference to people and places. We do it with public money.

And I think there’s another one that was an Einstein quote, which was, “A person who never made a mistake, never tried anything new.” And certainly as a chief exec, do what you’ve always done, you get what you always got. We don’t want what we always got. So trying new things, and they don’t always work, but actually you learn something from all of it. And as long as it’s not a catastrophe, it’s the right thing to do.

Well, thank you very much for having me. I hope that’s been a helpful bit of an insight into the mad world of a chief exec or just a mad chief exec. Thank you to New Local for having me and, and see you soon.

Join our mailing list